[podcast's transcript] Planning your afterlife
Hello, everyone! Sława Bogom and welcome to the 22nd episode of Searching for the Slavic soul. I am I'm a bit ashamed that I am seeing you after yet another longer break than anticipated. And this time it's like 100% my fault, because, after recording the last episode I started working on another one another episode and completely lost track of time reading and thinking and preparing the material and…
I wanted to… I still want to talk about initiation rituals, and it turned out to be a topic so, well, so deep and complex that I kind of almost drowned in literature and in my thoughts. And really only recently I realised that, actually, it's been two months and I'm still not even half ready to talk about the topic. So I will not be talking about initiation rituals today because I'm nowhere near ready but instead, to kind of keep the episodes rolling and keep the podcast going, I thought I'd pick up the topic I started to talk about back in 2020 and the episode number 7, which was supposed to be the first in a series… the first episode in a series of the beginners guide to Slavic Native Faith. But then I got distracted and started doing something else.
Since… Actually, since… Since we are on the topic of getting distracted or forgetting stuff, I am going to introduce myself today, which I… I think that I forgot in the last two episodes or something like that. So, my name is Magda Lewandowska and I might just be the most disorganised and most scatterbrain podcast presenter you will ever see. Or hear if you only listening.
Anyway, today we begin picking up where we left, actually, over two years ago, and we are going to be talking about how to start with being a Rodnover and with following Slavic Native Faith so, if you're interested in that, keep listening.
I'm not sure if you remember or not, 2 years ago, in the episode number 7, I was talking about the entry requirements for a follower of Slavic Native Faith. And, again, it was supposed to be the first episode of the beginner series but then I started doing something else. Still, if you go back to the episode number 7, I was talking about 3 requirements… Like, entry requirements to Slavic Native Faith. These requirements were: 1) to find some ancestors to venerate and to interact with; 2) to get rid of or at least turn down the compulsion to pray daily or even more often, as some pagans do, and 3rd) requirement was to find a decent, helpful, and strong community to of capable people. In the episode number 7 I have explained the reasons behind all of these requirements so I will not be discussing it now. And, I think, I started in the episode number 9 to elaborate about Dola, which is one of the reasons why you need ancestors, but then of course I got distracted with…
That's my dog Chili…
But then I got, of course, I got distracted with other stuff and started talking about something else… As I do right now. Sorry, I have some technical difficulties here, which I'm trying to address but is not really going very well. So, every now and then, if I look more distracted than I typically do, just that's me trying to cope with all of this.
So, where was I? Yes, Dola! Dola is super important for a Rodnover’s life so, if you don't know what it is and how to get one, do listen to the episode number 9. But, other than Dola, other than you trying to find your Dola, or identify your Dola, your first step as a Rodnover would be to actually get a reality check. If you… If you want to be really fancy, you might call it getting in touch with istina, so really, the reality. The reason why you need a reality check it's because in all likelihood, having been brought up in a Judeo-Christian culture, you have got a lot of misconceptions about following a religion and, I guess, you have a lot of misconceptions about yourself too. Because Judeo-Christian tradition has you believe, has pretty much a lot of people believe, that we are the designated rulers of the universe and are somehow better or more important than everything else. That God loves us and that we need the God's love to live, I suppose. To live, to breathe and function. And the truth is that we don’t, and you don't.
In Slavic paganism humans are really not that special. We're just a regular part of the ecosystem. We’re not really that important or helpful. And, if you look at the… If you look at the events of the last hundred years of or so, we might actually be bad for the planet. I mean… I mean that’s a overestimation too, because, really, all the harm we are doing to the natural environment, it's really only hurting us. It's making the planet less habitable for us, for humans. It's making the planet less habitable for our children and their children. Mother Nature will always find a way, and if humanity decides to finish itself off, the life on Earth will continue flourishing like nothing really happened. Same thing happened after dinosaurs were extinct. You know, nothing really stopped. Things kept going and new species continued developing and flourishing. And it wouldn't be the first time. Still obviously that is… That is a different story. So, I think I'm just going to leave it here.
Reality check. Yes, reality check. So, as a freshly converted Rodnover you actually need to realise that you are not special and unique. Not anymore than any other living being is special and unique. So, you are just a mammal, you are a part of the ecosystem and Gods don't actually care about you anymore than They care about, I don't know, a rat or a pigeon. You don't need to please Slavic Gods. You don't need to fulfill Their expectations, because They don't really have any expectations with regards to you. Gods don't have any plan for your life. There is no commandment to follow, no sins to repent, no absolutions to receive. No God is going to love you or die for you or save you.
Well, actually, if you're good at bargaining and ready to pay the price, a God might save you, but, well, it if it happens it's going to cost you dearly. So, as far as Slavic Gods are concerned, you are just free to do as you please, and deal with any positive or negative effects or consequences of your actions.
Also, since we are on the topic of you not being special and not being unique and being in an urgent need of a reality check, you might as well realise that nothing you think of yourself is real, unless you can prove it. Because, as I explained in the episode number 5, the hierarchy of the world of Slavic Pagans was based on competence and skills. So, basically if you, for example, want to be wiedźma or szeptucha, so a Slavic witch, you've got to be able to do real magic. I don't know, magically cure a disease, or make the rainfall down from the sky. And if your magic doesn't have any real effects in the reality, so in the istina, you are not a witch. You are just not. No matter how many fancy beads or skulls or feathers or no muddy makeup you put on yourself, you are still not wiedźma. You can have a tantrum because of that, slam the door or, I don't know, accuse me of… what was I accused of recently? Misogyny or something. But none of it will ever make you a Slavic witch. The only thing that will make you are wiedźma is your competence in Slavic magic, which means: effectively and successfully changing the reality in a magical way. Unless you can make it happen it ain't true.
Szeptucha (a witch) Anna Bondaruk at work. Note lack of tattoos, make-up or fancy hair/head decoration/accessories. Photo: Andrzej Sidor /Agencja FORUM
So, yeah, reality check is very important part of Slavic Native Faith, because Slavic Native Faith is a religion of doing and achieving. You know, whether you soul is pure or body is pure or intentions are pristine, it doesn't actually matter at all. What matters is what you can get done in your life, what you can achieve. The ultimate goal of the life of a Rodnover is to become a venerated ancestor. As long as you manage to achieve it in your life span, you are a good Rodnover, and everyone is happy. Actually, well not everyone, every single one person is happy, but certainly, every person that matters. Your family and the community of capable and reasonable people you managed to find before you decided to become a Rodnover, they are happy basically.
Actually, since we are on the topic of people that matter, I'd like to quickly mention people that don't matter, which is pretty much everyone that is not a member of your family, is not a member of your capable community, as well as everyone who is not currently, so at this moment, a guest in your house. Because I hope you remember from the episode number 4, as a Rodnover, as a follower of Slavic Native Faith, it is your religious duty to be hospitable, to receive guests, to honour them and ensure no harm comes to them while they’re under your roof. Apart of these three groups of people no one really matters to you from a perspective of Slavic Native Faith. So, the person on the internet that left a very rude and unkind comment - it doesn't matter at all. Someone on the other side of the world talking about something that doesn't affect you in the slightest - it is not your problem. The only time you should care about people who don't matter are times when these people are trying to hurt you or hurt your family or hurt your strong and capable community or your current guest. And by hurt I actually mean physically hurt, because, and I most probably will take a lot of criticism for what I'm about to say, but, I'm going to say it anyway because at this stage I really don't care. What many of modern Rodnovers need to realise is that in Slavic tradition words don't actually count as hurt unless they are followed by hurtful actions. I mean, let me rephrase: in Slavic tradition negative or as they called nowadays unkind words of a regular person don't count as hurt. These words, they cannot cause hurt in and by themselves.
They are some types of words that can hurt you. These are words spoken by a person with supernatural powers, like for example wiedźma, so Slavic witch I was talking about. Such person can curse you, and in this case the words of this curse will cause harm to you. Another type of words that can harm you are words of praise. Seriously. Our Slavic ancestors believed that praising someone or something can actually bring bad luck on this something or someone. Hence, for example, they, our ancestors, they gave their children really ugly names. Such names like Nielub which means “one who isn't loved or liked” or Niemog which means “one who is incapable”. Such names, they were given to young children in order to protect them from malevolent spirits. And these names they were only changed for proper, positive names during initiation ritual, which for boys was called postrzyżyny and for girls zapleciny. That was the initiation ritual that was designed to officially accept a boy and a girl into the community of Slavs and only then the ugly name was changed for one that actually meant something positive or nice.
What I am trying to say here is that unless insults or bad wishes are said to you by a person with supernatural ability, these insults or bad wishes, these words you don't like or which you find offending or insulting, these words they cannot hurt you. What more the words that can actually hurt you are praises so the things that you might want to hear. Which in turn means that as a practicing Rodnover you should stop getting offended by what people say. Unless this person has supernatural abilities, but in this case you better off being respectful and kind to this person with supernatural abilities otherwise you’re putting yourself at even more risk of angering let's say the wiedźma and ending up in even more supernatural troubles. And if there are any words that you should be wary of these are the words of praise, particularly if such words are coming from a stranger so not a member of your family or community. Such kind and supportive words can actually end up triggering an attack of malevolent spirits, which you obviously don’t want.
And now, pretty much every person who was brought up in a Slavic culture, at least in my generation, every single such person has thick skin with regards to these unkind words or comments. And we know that words are not violence. We know that because we were brought up in families that truly believed in loving by criticising and avoiding praising at any cost. However, it seems that majority of people who were brought up outside of Slavic culture, particularly people who were brought up in the States and Canada, they actually, really truly believe that words can hurt them. Which to a Slav sounds absolutely crazy. Like, that's just bonkers.
So, for any freshly converted practitioners of Slavic Native Faith who was brought up to be sensitive to unkind words and, how is it called nowadays, unsafe spaces, just stop getting offended. If anything as a practicing Rodnover start getting suspicious of anyone who praises you. Because, in Slavic tradition it is the praise that can actually hurt you.
So, that's the stuff that can hurt you. I was talking about the ultimate life goal of a of a Rodnover, which is to become a venerated ancestor. It can be achieved obviously by having children. But actually, only if you treat your children in a way that will give them a reason to venerate you after your death. So, let me stress here, that being only a biological parent might not actually be enough to be venerated. I mean it might be enough if your children are desperate to venerate someone. But counting on the desperation of children which you abandoned is not really a smart move when you're planning your afterlife. You know, it's always better to be safe than sorry. So, if you have children just be a good parent to them, give them plenty of reasons to remember you and appreciate you and invite you for Dziady, so Slavic rituals of ancestral veneration after your death.
Having children is the most obvious but not the only way to become a venerated ancestor. You can also get positively involved in the life of other people from your family or not. You can become a remembered ancestor in this way. You can have a meaningful positive impact on the life of your nieces or nephews, or people who, although are not related to you by blood, they consider you like a member of their family. I mean as a child, for example, as a child, teenager and young adult as well, I had a few mentors whom I will absolutely never forget. They had such an immense positive influence on my life. I'm absolutely 100% going to be venerating them after they die, which hopefully, they… You know, thankfully they haven't died yet and they're not going to die anytime soon, but they will die at some point and they will definitely be invited by myself to Dziady. And I will share food with them and drink with them and I will never really forget them, because they mean so much to me.
S, if you don't have or won't have children that's not the end of the world. You can start making positive difference in someone else's life. Because, as far as Slavic Native Faith goes, it's in your best interest, in the interest of your whole afterlife to make a positive impact on people’s lives. So, you don't get forgotten after your death.
So, that’s you goal in life when you are a Rodnover. How you will achieve this goal however is completely up to you. Because there's no such a thing as sin in Slavic Native Faith. There aren't any bad ways of getting things done in Slavic Native Faith. There is no good or evil either. There are only things that are benevolent or malevolent to you, to your family to your community. If something is benevolent you want it, you encourage and try to make it happen. For example, you can get benevolent demons to live in your house. Or you can just get demons to live in your house and by your actions towards them, by your interactions with them you can encourage them to act benevolently towards you and your family. As far as Slavic Native Faith… As far as morality in Slavic Native Faith, the only things we know for sure that you are supposed to be doing, you are supposed to be hospitable to your guests, you are supposed to be respectful and caring towards your elders, particularly your parents and you are not supposed to contribute to generating malevolent demons. Which basically means that you are supposed to attend to the bodies of dead people and provide them with proper burial rituals, so they don't turn into malevolent demons after their death. I mean that is a big simplification but it's sufficient for what we are discussing here and now. If you want to learn more about morality of pre-Christian Slavs, you are most welcome to listen to the episodes number 4 and 13 of Searching for the Slavic Soul.
Basically, as long as you're hospitable, you treat your elders respectfully and attend to the bodies of the dead, you are pretty much free to do whatever you think will work and will achieve your goal of becoming a venerated ancestor. You can be honest and hard working, or you can be lazy cheater and a thief and do pretty much everything else on the spectrum between these two extremes. As far as your religion goes, as far as Slavic Native Faith go it doesn't actually matter, as long as you get shit done. In my personal life I tend to stay on the side of the legal things, stay within the law. That is my personal choice. Slavic Native Faith does not actually forbid you to break the law. The only thing that you are not allowed to break is your promise, but only if this promise or an oath is made in the name of Slavic Gods. So, as long as you don't call Slavic Gods to witness a lie, you're pretty much good.
But, of course, whatever you decide to do, you have to take any consequences of your actions and deal with it. Which is, for example, what happened to a guy called Mściwój. He was a prince of Obotrites. They were a tribe of Polabian Slavs and Mściwój had great political ambitions, which as a Slav you’re absolutely allowed to have. In order to fulfil these ambitions, he became a Christian. He wanted to marry a niece of duke of Saxony. In order to show that he was worth of marrying a niece of a duke of Saxony, he joined Otto II in his campaign to Italy. Over there, in the fighting that ensued Mściwój lost, I think, most of his army. He did manage to come back alive and come back to Saxony. But, obviously he had no army so the duke of Saxony kicked him out. He called him a dog, which was a big insult and refused to let him marry the niece. Hearing the insult Mściwój – imagine that – he did not throw a fit, he did not have a tantrum he did not accuse the duke of literal violence. He just turned around and went back to his Slavic tribe. When he was halfway to the land of the Obotrites, the duke of Saxony actually changed his mind. Yet again. And he sent a messenger after Mściwój and this messenger was supposed to pass on a message that the duke of Saxony didn't actually mean no. He meant yes and that Mściwój we can marry the niece. But by then Mściwój – and to be honest I'm not really blaming him – he rightfully decided that he was done with the duke who changes his mind twice daily. Mściwój told the duke’s messenger to just get lost. As Helmold, who recorded these events, as he wrote, what Mściwój actually said: “Well then, if the dog be hale, he will take big bites”.
So, basically… I mean… I'm not an English native speaker. I really don't know how clear this is to modern English speaker, but basically what Mściwój said: yeah, well, okay, if I'm a dog then I go and get better and then will take a big bite. You know, nowadays some could say that Mściwój internalised the insult, but people who would say that clearly haven't met many Slavs. Because what Mściwój actually did, was to get back to his people. Over there he gathered a new army and then he proceeded to, as Helmold wrote in his chronicle, just waste the land of the duke of Saxony with fire and sword. Slavs burned all the churches and destroyed, even them to the ground. They tortured and murdered the priests and other ministers and left not a vestige of Christianity beyond the Elbe river. I mean it wasn't so straight forward, because in order to gather a new army Mściwój actually had to first convince the pagans Slavs, so his tribe, that he’s still pagan. That the whole converting to Christianity was just a ruse. Because he actually did betray his people. He took them over to Italy, he had them killed. So real hurt happened to his tribe. Mściwój was reminded by his people that what happened to him was actually well deserved. He had to accept this assessment and after that, after he admitted that “I deserve it, I did wrong”. And then he was made to take an oath, in which he promised to, from now on, to be faithful to his people and to his pagan Faith. And only after that Slavs supported Mściwój in getting back, in teaching the duke of Saxony the lesson.
So, in this story we really have it all. We have pagan Slavs, who understand ambition, accept that lying in order to achieve one's goal is absolutely fine, as long as you don't betray your own kin. Because if you do that, whatever happens to you it's kind of well deserved. But on the other hand Obotrites, the tribe of Mściwój, they didn't cancel him, they didn't throw him away. They gave him a chance to learn his lessons, to make up for the harm that he caused and, last but not least, they gave him a chance to help the whole tribe to get rich on plundering the Christians.
And here we get to another thing that you have to accept as a follower of Slavic Native Faith. And this thing is that you have to accept, that getting rich is actually a good thing. As a follower of Slavic Native Faith, you do want to get rich and either share your wealth with your family and community or, while getting rich, you want to help your family and community to get rich as well. So, what I have noticed among the modern Rodnovers, is the trend of ascesis, self deprivation, rejecting materialism and focusing on spirituality and such. And it's all just BS. I did talk at length about how stupid this approach is, I did talk about it in the episode number 10, so I will not elaborate much more here, but I will share with you a story recorded by a chronicler Ebo in “Life of saint Otto, bishop of Bamberg”.
So, as Ebo wrote, there was this guy called Bernard. He was a bishop of Spain. Bishop from Spain, sorry, he was a bishop from Spain. And he was a hermit as well. And after becoming a… Like, he didn't become, he was… Because, you didn’t… You need to be consecrated as a bishop. So, he was consecrated as a bishop in Rome and after that he could, really, easily just settle in Rome and or in Spain and live a life of luxury. But he decided that he rather suffers, like any good Christian should. And after he heard that there are still Pagans in the north of Europe, so where the Polabian Slavs lived. He became a missionary and went off to Christianise the Slavs.
When he showed up in Wolin, which was a big Slavic merchant town. So, when he showed up in Wolin, Bernard was barefoot and he was wearing poor quality robes, like any good Christian would. Because, I honestly don't know why, for some reasons Christians are supposed to wear rags and don't pay any attention to being presentable. So, when he showed up in Wolin, wearing bad quality clothes and barefoot on top of it, he started telling Pagan Slavs that he had just been sent by the almighty God to guide the Pagans to the path of truth. But when Slavs saw him and the way he looked, and they heard his words, they just thought he was crazy. They didn't believe him, obviously, because well, as they told him, if he was truly a messenger of God, he would be able to afford shoes and decent clothing. Because in Slavic tradition, if Gods are on your side, they give you abundance of good stuff. So, then you can afford to have good quality clothing so a) you are protected from the elements and don't die, but also b) through the quality of your clothing you can present to the world that you're doing well and that Gods are on your side.
I think the story of Bernard from Spain beautifully illustrates how Christianised are some of the modern Rodnovers. I mean, there's just so many allegedly followers of Slavic Native Faith who think that being rich is not good and that it's all about spiritual development and meditation and self deprivation and such, which is basically, 100% Christian stuff and has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Slavic pagan tradition. As a Slavic Pagan the point is not to suffer. The point is to have the best possible life, to provide for your family in abundance and to share your blessings, so you literal and metaphorical harvest, with your community. As a Rodnover, if you’re piss poor and you're starving, that means you are failing at life and you need to take actions to improve things. It's not good. The goal in Slavic Native Faith is to be well off and use your wealth to support your family and your community. You're supposed to get rich and share.
Similar situations I see during Rodnovery rituals and celebrations. I mean, thankfully, I don't see it anymore because the group I am a member of right now is absolutely awesome. But in the past, I did see it. I saw supposedly pagan rituals that were just such a drag… Everything was just somber and serious and żerca, so the priest, was talking like, I swear, like a catholic priest. With the same gravity and composure and the modulation: “Ohh… We've gathered today to worship our father”. It was just so bad and so not pagan. Because the pagan rituals are supposed to be fun. You are supposed to have fun. You are supposed to eat and drink and dance and sing and have absolutely awesome time. And if you don’t, this is being disrespectful to the Gods, to your tradition, to your family and all the community. Which can be hard. Like, for me, for example, because the group that I am a member of, they organise the celebration quite far from where I live, so I have to drive there. Because believe it or not, it's the cheapest way to get there. And fastest as well. I can very rarely stay overnight and that means, because I'm driving, I cannot drink and sometimes it bothers me Because, and we know it for sure from primary sources, on pre-Christian pagan Slavs, you are supposed to get wasted during a ritual feast. So, right now, I'm getting my daughter to do her driving license, and I'm hoping that she will be able to drive us to the celebrations, so I can get wasted like a good Rodnover. But until then, I have to just have a good time sober. I am still doing my best but… You can’t have everything, I guess. Although as a Rodnover you should at least try. Don't just assume that things are not achievable.
So, that's pretty much everything I had to say today. To summarise, your first steps as a follower of Slavic Native Faith should be to just get a reality check, see what's real and what's you made up. Then you should really stop getting offended by unkind words. Start being wary of people that praise you, because their words can actually bring a horde of malevolent demons upon you. You should get comfortable with getting rich and try to get rich if only possible. And last but not least, you should start building healthy relationships with people who will be willing and able to venerate you after your death.
As, always if you have anything to add criticise or anything at all to say, do get in touch. I will link all the contact details in the notes of this Episode. For now, take care, stay real, don't get offended and
Sława!
Bibliography:
K. Moszyński “Kultura duchowa Słowian”
F.J. Tschan, “The Chronicle of the Slavs by Helmold, Priest of Bosau”
“Sources of Slavic Pre-Christian Religion”, edited by J. A. Álvarez-Pedrosa